How to Work for Your Own Success

John Gura

John Gura is the Vice President of Sales at United Scientific, developing, manufacturing, and delivering top-quality science equipment to distributors worldwide. United Scientific initially set its niche in providing laboratory equipment for educational institutions but has seen exponential and steady growth since it first started serving the scientific community in 1992. John incorporates his expert knowledge of the sales industry into industrial and educational science equipment pricing and cataloging, market analysis, and supply consulting.

Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:

John Gura discusses United Scientific’s unique market niche
The process of finding new clients vs. distributors
What are the benefits of the Independent Laboratory Distributors Association (ILDA)?
John shares the importance of building relationships in the industry
Are cyber attacks being experienced in the manufacturing sector?
What pieces of infrastructure are ransomware attacks most likely to target?
John’s mentors throughout the years

In this episode…

Some businesses find themselves in a niche market but are unsure how to capitalize on opportunities. Can you ensure the growth of your business in a less-known sector?

Though your business may not be following a popular formula for success, it’s important to recognize the advantage of your unique position in the market. Finding the right resources and utilizing all available tools are crucial steps in building a thriving business framework. However, your company’s future could suffer without proper cyber protection. The rising sophistication of cyberattacks has created an environment where no business, big or small, is free from the risk of attack.

In this episode of The Cyber Business Podcast, Matthew Connor welcomes John Gura, Vice President of Sales at United Scientific to discuss optimal ways of finding new clients and distributors, how ILDA can help your business, common targets for manufacturing cyber attacks, and protecting your business from ransomware attacks. John shares how to effectively build relationships in the industry and how having mentors helped him grow professionally.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Sponsor for this episode...

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Transcript

Matthew	This computer, according to price. Here we go. All right. Matthew Connor here, host of the Cyber Business podcast, where we feature successful business leaders, top law firms, green energy companies and more. Today, we're joined by the vice president of sales at United Scientific, John Guare. John, welcome to the show.
John	Hi, thanks for having me, Matt.
Matthew	All right. Thanks for being on the show. Before we get too far, in a quick word from our sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by CyberLynx.com That Cyber L-Y-N-X.com. CyberLynx is a complete technology solution provider that ensures your business not only has the most reliable and professional i.t. Service, but also has the right cybersecurity solutions to ensure your business stays productive and safe.
Matthew	Many businesses think they're too small to be a target for cyber criminals, and that's simply not the case. We've had so many companies come to us for help after they've been hit and they were always surprised because they thought they were too small to be a target or they thought they wouldn't be able to afford good cybersecurity solutions.
Matthew	So it's surprisingly affordable. If you think you're too small, you can't afford cyber security. Check out our website CyberLynx.com.You'll be surprised just how affordable proper protection really is. And now back to our show. John, thanks for coming on.
John	Yeah, again, thanks for having me.
Matthew	Oh, it's a pleasure. So you're the vice president at United Scientific. Tell us about United Scientific.
John	Sure. So United Scientific has got a pretty rich and unique history in in the scientific industry. So the company's been in business since 1941, so I think that's 81 years. It initially started in India as a company that was supplying universities with physics equipment. And as the owner son came over to the United States, he came over as an accountant to start an accounting business.
John	And as he always says, as which case, when there's a family business, that means the family wants you to get into the family business. So his dad came out to visit him one time and talked him into cold calling a distributor in our industry, and they walked out of there with an order. And then United Scientific began in the eighties in the U.S. as sort of a side job to Raj Soni was our owner at the time, started out as a like a side project, a we call it a living room business.
John	You know, he had all the stocks sitting in the garage and taping up boxes and sending them out and driving them to the UPS store. And we grew a pretty successful business in the science education market. And one of the items we noticed is the science education market was always sort of like a race to the bottom. It's who can supply this piece of equipment a half cent cheaper.
John	And the downside to that is you're providing products to the students that were not the same type of products they were going to use when they got in the labs, when they got into their professional lives or even university. So we found a gap in the industry of why don't we try to locate source, develop products that are of the research and industrial quality and standards, but maybe priced more towards the educational marketplace of what they're used to.
John	So that's where we started. And as the nineties and early 2000 went through, through what that led to is now a lot of these industrial and research laboratory distributors were saying, Hey, here's an option. We could we could save our customers money, we could we don't have to offer the same to name brands of a certain product line that we've only offered for years that have to deal with any type of stock outs or logistics struggles or price increases.
John	And our business started growing in that niche. And then obviously the education business continued to grow, too. And now we're we're probably 65, 35% research as we've grown into different product categories. So we've got about a roughly 4550 employees sitting stateside and we have 11 sourcing offices overseas with about another 50 to 60 sitting in those offices working over there in various manufacturing or product sourcing roles.
John	So one of our strengths has really become that distributor that comes to us. And I always say my favorite question to get from a customer is, Hey, I wonder if you guys can find this. And that's kind of what we've been doing lately. And as the COVID world came upon us, that really put a lot of strain on supply chain.
John	So that question started coming up more and more and more, and it grew into a really new product lines for us, which maybe we'll talk on later. We'll see how that other conversation goes. But it really kept us agile and working into gathering new products and probably to put a bow on it. The business model we have is that we sell only through distributors, so we're not a company that we don't compete with our customers.
John	We work in partner with our distribution partners in various industries and support them as they call on schools, laboratories, factories, QC companies, things like that. So that's kind of I would say that's the elevator pitch on United, but it's a pretty long elevator ride. So maybe like a like an Eiffel Tower elevator ride, elevator pitch.
Matthew	As great. Well, that's that's interesting. So really, your clients are distributors, you know, so when you're going to, you know, to find new clients, I mean, you know, we our clients are our, you know, small businesses and medium sized businesses. And we help them find, you know, you know, provide I.T. service and cybersecurity. So I understand how we go about finding those.
Matthew	How do you go about finding, you know, distributors and.
John	Well, it's been an evolution over the years. You know, initially it was always, well, we have one customer. Let's I mean, even back further, when my father in law was the vice president of sales, it was let's look in the the Thomas Register of the phone book and see who's similar company. Then it kind of evolved into where we got more use of the Internet and can find similar companies.
John	You know, we were selling a company that supplies, say, pharmaceutical labs. Then we would, you know, try to find out where, you know, what other places supply these labs through web searches, things like that, and then through organizations such as Gilda and a few other ones out there where you can meet people. And now, as we've grown to the level we are, it's really kind of split half way.
John	We have a lot of distributors coming to us, primarily because their customers will say, Hey, I'm buying this product already manufactured by United Scientific. Can you get this for us? Or they'll see a hole in there or a gap in their product line and say, Hey, we only have one glassware supplier that we can purchase from us. We'd like to find another one.
John	So I would say it's probably at this point it's 60% distributors coming to us and more 40% of us searching and and hunting and finding and meeting folks at trade shows and and in meetings like Gilda. But it's you know, when you're looking at, you know, a business such as yours, the potential client list is almost limitless. You know, there's new businesses starting up all the time.
John	And some of them range from one, you know, one person working an hour a week to, you know, international conglomerates. And the in the lab supply business, it's a much smaller picture being that it's you know, there's a lot involved with becoming a distributor to a lab, to a laboratory. So there's just not as many. I mean, frankly, there's just not as much room for a whole lot of them in there.
John	So, you know, I would say on a high end, it's somewhere around 500 or so, you know, in various industries and whatnot.
Matthew	Well, and then I guess that's where, you know, Elder comes in handy and that you get to kind of build, you know, meet and build relationships. Yeah. Because that's that's kind of, you know, obviously with sales, that's, that's the biggest thing nobody's going to help, you know, wants to do business with somebody that they don't like. So having that kind of association, right, to and an opportunity to meet and, and you know, kind of build a relationship that's a lot easier than cold calling somebody.
John	Oh, 100% and you know one of the things you know, my father in my helmet, Fisher, was the person who started the sales agency that worked with United. And and I remember one of the first things he told me is you're never going to sell a product to anybody. The only thing you have to sell is you. And and it's true because you can you know, you can buy a bike or anywhere.
John	You can buy a pipette anywhere, but you want to find someone a that you enjoy working with and be that'll follow through on what they say. And that's part of the reason, you know, we've been able to members for ten years and previously our company was a member of Elda. Before that when Aldo was very small with a different company.
John	And that's really what it is. It's, it's relationship building very rarely. What do I say? I walk out of build with a purchase order in hand, you know, other than the odd case of everybody out of these, you have them and then that might be a scenario. But really, you know, one of the misconception is we see sometimes the new members coming is their belief is, well, if I join the organization automatically, every distributor will sell all my products that I have.
John	And we always stop them there. And I'm I'm on the board of directors filled field and I'm also the chair of the membership committee. And the the first thing I tell a prospective new member is, look, this is this is not the place for you to be. Immediate gratification is is your goal. You're here to build the relationships and it may take you two years, three years, four years to build that relationship.
John	But the fruit that bears is is a 20 year relationship, a 30 year relationship. So it's definitely, like you say, building up relationships with people, not just with ultimate in this industry itself. And then, you know, we always laugh when we go around the trade shows that occasionally the jerseys change, but you know that my my coworker Jim always laughs that, you know, once you're in this industry, you're you're stuck in it.
John	And he always says that's because nobody else will have us. But I think he's just being a being a little humorous there. But it's true, this industry, more than most that I've seen, really does a good job of kind of weeding out dishonesty. And they just don't last. They don't stay around because of the relationship nature. And it really, you know, it fills itself with folks who are looking to drive business, the relationship as opposed to drive business through SKU.
Matthew	Yeah, I mean, I noticed that with, you know, I've only been to one older meeting so far, and I noticed that immediately. It was it was just I was shocked by how really friendly and welcoming everybody was and how it really was this this organization that was all about relationships, not just, you know, it wasn't just transactional for sure.
Matthew	It's a 100% a relationship organization, which is fantastic. It's that's that's you know, in my experience with business, I think your father in law was right. You're never selling a product or service. You're selling yourself. And they're buying based off of that. Of course, the product and service has to then, yeah.
John	Absolutely.
Matthew	Has to be quality. But but without that, that relationship, a good luck. I mean then you're just cold calling and plane numbers. It's a silly game, right? I mean, so yeah, I like.
John	My college days of selling long distance phone plans.
Matthew	It was fun interrupting people during their during their dinner. Oh, you know, you.
John	Have to you learn a lot of it. Exactly. And you learn a lot of new adult words that you maybe didn't know at that time and to be used in a social setting in college. So that's, you know, quite interesting.
Matthew	That's great. Well, you mentioned that you got some new new products coming out or that have come out. What can you tell us about those?
John	Yeah, and, you know, I never like using platforms like this as sales pitches, but I think it's important to to kind of paint a picture maybe of things that we're doing that people might not be aware of. You know, And like I mentioned, we always are identifying goals in the market, whether there may be a single player where there's an option for, you know, you don't want to have customers in a lab tied to only one option, and especially during COVID that you couldn't afford to have labs shut down at that point.
John	It was people's jobs and livelihoods. So we did a lot of expansion into the life science area during this time, and it ranged from single SKUs, you know, things like two RD barcoded tubes, which I mentioned. I have a business background. So when you if you were to ask me what is a 2D barcoded tube, I have no idea.
John	But I do know the guy within our organization that does. So I would go to him, but things like that. We introduced a line of stainless steel lab where, you know, food safety has become a very big touch point for a lot of folks lately. And then stainless steel is one of the lines of product that's really big in that market.
John	And there was a gap. There was really only a couple of suppliers doing that. And we learned it took us three or four years to get that line because finding the right manufacturing partner to do that, there was a lot of challenges to make sure you're using the correct raw material, getting the correct certifications. And that kind of led to other things, you know, trace metal, three centrifuge tubes, biohazard bags.
John	There wasn't enough biohazard bags and disposable pipettes in the world two years ago. And, you know, I always said if I go on a time machine and buy serological pipettes and biohazard bags and stuff in my basement, I'd be doing this podcast from my yacht. But unfortunately, it's just my small office. So that's been a couple of lines we've added.
John	We just launched on Monday actually a line of printed watch bottles, so those are 500 ML printed bottles would see the safety numbers on them for color. Four I think it's 14 of the common chemicals used in labs. We think that's going to be a real home run for us. And to those of you coming to elbow, you'll you'll get to see them at the Ilga meeting.
John	And as a preview, you can see them at Pittcon next week.
Matthew	Nice.
John	So that's kind of the directions we're going in and always, you know, always adding some other one off, filling out lines. You know, we want to make sure we have a full range of each of the type of products we offer. And then for our other divisions, you know, we're always we got some physics PhDs on staff that are developing some really cool physics teaching apparatus to be used in grade school, high school and university.
John	So that's kind of the direction we're going. And I would say we're probably going to have more life science and wet chemistry products as the focus for the next six months or so. But, you know, we're always open to suggestions from our customers, too.
Matthew	That's great. I mean, it's kind of wild that you guys do. You know, you do educational products, you do the laboratory products. I'll how how does how does that work? You know, getting I mean, such a broad change, you wouldn't think there'd be that much overlap there.
John	Well, I mean if you look at its core and at its base. Yes. Originally this type of industry in this type of business, it was really a sourcing game. It was find somebody else that that made it. And at that point, it doesn't matter if the bubblegum beakers or or cars. But when we made the decision to you know we as I mentioned I'm a business guy.
John	I don't have the knowledge of the science market, even though I've been doing this 22 years. I'm getting some. But we have a Ph.D. physicist that works on our staff. We have a PhD genealogist, we have a a botanist on our team, we have a chemist on our team. And these are the folks that help identify the products.
John	But kind of going back to how they blend, I mean, if you think about the year, you know, science, the high school science days, and they're a little hazy for me, they're a little longer ago than I want them to be. And I do kind of remember that I had a girl ask the homecoming that was sitting next to me.
John	So I probably paid a little more attention to that than I did to the labs themselves. But in addition to using these physics and biology demonstrations, there was beakers, there were cylinders, there was filter paper, vacuum pumps, things like that. We're in the lab, and these are the same things that are used in the you know, in professional laboratories and in pharmaceutical laboratories.
John	So that was kind of the transition going to it. And then as I mentioned earlier, our goal of initially let's take Rita research quality products and bring them into the classroom that naturally just transition to, well, we got these research quality products. Let's bring them into the research labs. And as customers have come to us with more demands and needs and hey, we can find three valve class and you have three next class.
John	Can you guys find something like that for us? And it just ends up snowballing. And now we brought some product managers on our staff to that. Their job is to identify which protocols we have in both markets. We have an education product manager position and a laboratory position, and now it's they're run independently but all under one company, so to speak, where the products that cross over, cross over.
John	But there's going to be those handful of say in the other two claims.
Matthew	Thanks. And so you guys are actually manufacturing all these, you know, 5000 ish SKUs.
John	All right. It's a combination of it's a combination of us manufacturing, US contract manufacturing and also having partner manufacturers overseas. And when I say partner manufacturers, one of the things, you know, the economic situation, particularly over in India, was a lot of times there's not a lot of room for personal growth for the folks that work in those facilities.
John	So what Raj Soni and his son, Robert Stone, he's now the CEO of the company, is doing a great job. But what his dad did is he set up this concept of instead of me having these guys work for me making products, let's set these guys up in their own cottage businesses where they can control their own growth, control their own success if they want to do more products, gather more work, they can bring staff in.
John	So that's more of a partner manufacturer where these guys just make stuff for us, but not necessarily under our umbrella of you have to make what we tell us. You know, we we say we have to do today. They're more under the chain of, yes, I'm making these products for you that you guys have was contracted to manufacture.
John	But here are six other ideas that we'd like to do, or here's five other products that we think we can do. What do you what do you want to do with it? So it really creates an opportunity for growth and advancement for the for the team over there to that fantastic.
Matthew	Glad to hear it. You know, I can't help but think I mean, you know, in the in the manufacturing side of things, you know, I keep hearing we've got a couple manufacturers they're government, you know, contractor manufacturers. So it's a it's a slightly different ballgame for them. They have to have all kinds of cybersecurity and and stuff in place.
Matthew	And I'm hearing I haven't seen it, you know, firsthand yet because, you know, we don't have that many manufacturing clients that aren't government related. But, you know, I keep hearing about the kind of pressure and the focus of the cyber attacks on the manufacturing sector as a whole. Is that something that you guys are seeing there at all?
John	We haven't seen that much of it on the manufacturing sector. And a lot of that has to do with it's it's it's very labor intensive for the type of we don't have a whole lot of extremely technical products. They're more vacuum formed or molded products or glassware that's you know, through glass blowers or through molds. So not a lot of that is subject to cyber.
John	We do see it sometimes with our customers for their financials being attacked cyber wise. And, you know, we had a ransomware issue with with us ourselves. So not as much on the manufacturing side, but on the operations side. That's where we see that as an issue that we need to be aware of.
Matthew	Yeah, now for sure. I mean, and that's really it. I mean, for a lot of them, I get, you know, when you're talking about infrastructure, then it's those actual, you know, infrastructure pieces that that they want to kind of turn off and hold for ransom, if you will. But for most manufacturers, it's the financial because so much money is trading trading hands, even though your margins might not be, you know, as huge as some other industries might be, I don't know.
Matthew	But it's the actual dollars they're going after. Right. You know, you're coming from a third world country. The Americans, they've got all the money. And so even a small business is a is a goldmine for these, you know, third world hackers. So well, the.
John	Margins are really high when you just in the money, you know, really from an acquisition cost.
Matthew	Yeah. Cost of goods, you know very, very low when you when you're just dealing so yeah good point as.
John	And when we kind of find that the you know most of the issues that we've seen directly were usually tied to human error where you know, it's the the the criminals out there making the attempts but they've got to engage someone who may not know what they're clicking, what they're doing. And then that that that that's where the problems arise.
John	And you know, I remember the panic we had. It was probably five or six years ago where, you know, we use a product called Dropbox where we can share files. And I started noticing on my screen every 2 seconds an updated product name that went from 2023 priceless to 75 different characters and it was a race around the office.
John	Everybody unplug everything. You shut everything down. And sure enough, it was a ransomware attack.
Matthew	Raph Yeah, no, you're 100% right. The interesting part is statistically now they have, you know, estimates that range from from 60 to about 90% of, of all. Let's, you know, whether whether eight cyber incidences, right? It's because of human error. So there is an element of that. I mean you can have imagine you have the best security system in the world for your house.
Matthew	But if your kids open up the door and let the bad guys in, well, you know, that's now you've got another problem to deal with, right?
John	So, yeah. And then that notion to if you have protections in place right now, middle of the night, if one of my kids opened the door, an alarm goes off. That's right. So even though they open the door, I know something's going on. Where if I didn't have any protections in place, I wouldn't know. And it's funny you say that we we used to remark when of one of my kids, I won't say which one because he gets embarrassed that he was a sleepwalker.
John	And my wife was always worried like, what if he walks, leaves the house in the middle of the night? I said, Well, we have a security system. Well, you'll only have about a three second head start once that alarm goes off. And I think we'll be okay. But that would have been a concern of the, you know, when he would stay at my mom's house all the time, we had to make sure, hey, make sure you lock and deadbolt the doors, because I don't think he'll go outside.
John	But I didn't think he would dump all the dog food out on the floor either. And when he's asleep, so who knows?
Matthew	Yeah, No, that's a great point. It's funny because so we do this interesting thing where we've got this, we've got this what we call a stay in the lane technology that keeps, you know, a user from being able to click on something stupid or, you know, even if it's something legitimate looking at it. So your browser can go out and browse the Internet, but it can't run this crazy code, right?
Matthew	So it keeps you safe. But the interesting part was we had a client and I never saw this one come. I wouldn't have expected it, but it's kind of relates here. So this we had this this client who they're completely locked down, felt really good about the whole, you know, their their situation he takes his phone into now we use multifactor authentication on everything.
Matthew	Make sure their phones are using, you know, you know, a face ID or fingerprint. So and everything is done properly. You know, their their email and everything, multifactor authentication, everything locked down nice and tight. I'm feeling good, right? I sleep well at night. I know all their stuff is backed up feeling great. He takes his phone into into the the the his phone company to have it it's service.
Matthew	There was some, some problem with it He hands it over to the clerk tells them the password to his code to get get on. Now interestingly, whenever you've got access to the phone you get the passcode. When you then go, you know, all the passwords are saved there. You know, in his in his password app, he's got, you know, access to his his multiple his authentication app for his email.
Matthew	So when he handed this over and we don't know if it was the tech at the place or if that kid, you know, provided it to another person but they then compromised his is email and did one of these, you know, tried to do one of these business email compromise tried to intercept $200,000 in in payments, redirected them to their account.
Matthew	So it's an it's an ongoing investigation now. But I was shocked because it was like really I mean, and they felt bad because it's like, you know, everything's been locked down with them for years and simply handing that over. So with that in mind, going back to your, you know, alarm at the thing, we've implemented a new policy where now if there's any log in outside of your current places, alarm bells go off and the door slams shut and then you're like, hey, but I was trying to legitimately to sign in on a new computer.
Matthew	Great. Now Will Will let you sign in on the new computer. Didn't think we'd have to go to those lengths, but I tell you it people are really creative if they just use that that you know, all that creativity towards something productive, imagine where the world would be.
John	You know, the coolest comparison I heard is, you know, when I was younger and I grew up in the steroid era of baseball, and, you know, folks always said, you know, how come they can't catch these guys? And I remember that sticking in my head. And I was at a ilga meeting. We had a cyber good company maybe eight or nine years ago speaking.
John	He said the reason why they didn't catch him is because you can't find a way to catch somebody until you know what they're doing, because in that cyber you can't find a way to stop somebody from doing something until you find out what they're trying to do. And I'm like sitting. I'm like, Wow, that Now that makes sense to me.
John	Yeah, you wouldn't think you would. I got to you know, you're almost at the point you got to send a security guard to the phone store to know that.
Matthew	Yeah.
John	But you don't know that. You know, you don't know if some of these problems exist. I'm sure you can identify potential issues, but, you know, the folks doing this, they're not they're they're clever. They're they find ways to skirt what's out there.
Matthew	Yeah. And it's because I think, you know, cyber security, you know, not to, you know, move that the conversation that direction at all but you know cybersecurity not like a a thing that you can just achieve and be done like, you know like compliance. We're like well we filled out all this stuff and we're doing all these things.
Matthew	We're done right. It's constantly evolving because you're like, Oh crap, Well, yeah, you can hand over your phone with your passcode to somebody. Well, we need extra layers of protection. So it's this ongoing thing. And as things evolve, we constantly have to be examining those and be quick to to identify other and then implement it to all of our other clients.
Matthew	So as we have, you know, instead of, you know, just learning it on one and applying it, now we apply it to hundreds of clients all at once. So they, we all learn and grow and get that protection. But, but yeah, it's.
John	Oh sorry. And then it jumped out at me immediately. You know what, Because I know your industry is very technical, very back end of coding and stuff like that. And the compromise was by about the most low tech way you can do it. Somebody repeat repeating a series of six numbers.
Matthew	That was exactly it. And I was like, Yeah, I was just so shocked that we we'd overlooked that. You just never would have thought they could hand over the keys to somebody you should be able to trust. I mean, honestly, and I don't know how that will play out, you know, legally and how you know that because you are sure this was a major, you know, phone provider.
Matthew	It wasn't like he went to some fly by night operation. So and that tech is, you know, well, he's an employee of that organization. So there's you know I think they're fine on the money side you know between insurance and liability with everybody. But still a learning process for us.
John	It's a lot of layers of the onion to people over there. Do something like that, too.
Matthew	It sure is. Well, I tell you what, we like to kind of ask all of our guests if there's a you know, if they've been a mentor, you know, or, you know, that they've really gained a lot from over time. You know, So in sales, you know, for for you. And it doesn't necessarily have to be somebody that, you know, directly, but some, you know, maybe perhaps somebody in sales that you look up to, your mentor, anything like that you'd like to share with the audience?
John	Oh, well, I think 100% there was you know, I got into this business, you know, I got I got married young out of college. I was 23 when I got married. And and my father in law had a manufacturer's rep organization as a sales rep for primarily United Scientific. And, you know, it was one of those cases he needed someone to take care of his daughter and I needed a job.
John	So our first deal we cut, he goes, Well, you take good care of my daughter. And I love him very much. You know, he goes, I'll give you a job. So he started me on. And I remember the frustration. He it was a very long training period. And, you know, I always I felt like, you know, I was at that 10th guy on the bench and about I want to get in the game.
John	Let me take a shot. And I know you're you're still running drills. You're still draw the plays, you know, and looking back, the way he taught me to sell, the way he taught me to work with people I united Scientific could not be as successful as it was without without him. And also Raj Soni, the first president of United in our in the U.S. operation kind of teaching really nothing we didn't know but teach how important ethics were in relationships were.
John	And you can have all the products in the world. Something's going to go wrong, but you've only got your your word and your trust that you're 100% in control of. And those those are such valuable lessons. And yeah, I would definitely say those without without Raj in helmet and helmet, sadly, is no longer with us. Raj Roger's retired, which you know, that means when you retire from the family business, you think he's only working 40 to 45 hours a week, but he always says his favorite thing to do now is when a customer comes with him, with to him with something that needs to be addressed or taken care of, he gets a big smile
John	on his face and says, you know, you need to talk to my son on that. He'll take care of you. And then he goes back and does the parts of the job that are passionate for him. So you had Raj Sony at home, but Fisher, hands down, where were the two that got me excited about this business and taught me their way, which I believe is the right way.
John	Ethics and honesty of doing doing business in this industry. So without them, I wouldn't be here.
Matthew	It's fantastic. Great, great story. So tell us, where can people find more information about United Scientific?
John	I have plenty of different places. You know, we have a LinkedIn page, United Scientific Research, United Scientific. Our website is www.UnitedSI.com. There's a link there. If you're interested in being a distributor of our product, you can click on to that and that'll that'll come to me so we can reach out and have a conversation. And my email or my phone number is on the is on our website.
John	Also you can reach to reach me that way and then you can always see us at the end of the meeting. We'll always be at the other meetings and I'll be there. We're always at the Pittcon analytical chemistry show each year and then for the educational world, the National Science Teachers Association, which this year falls the same week as as Pittcon.
John	So I'm going to be spending a lot of time on my feet and in an airplane this week.
Matthew	Great. Well, John, thanks so much for coming on the show.
John	Matt Thanks for having me. Is a lot of fun.
Matthew	A pleasure.
John	Thanks.